This I Believe:: The Creation Story: Religion & Science

Treasure Beach Forum: TB Runnin's: This I Believe:: The Creation Story: Religion & Science
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 03:30 pm: Edit Post

I remember an article about a group of astrophysicists who sent a probe deep into space. They sent it to a place so far away that you would expect only bottomless silence. And instead they found waves — sound waves that they traced all the way back to the Big Bang.

I believe that those sound waves carry the borning cry of the cosmos. That a whisper from God’s lips created all that is and all that was and all that will be, and that that whisper set it into motion in a cataclysm so great that 14-billion years later those sound waves still echoes through a world without end....

Kimberly Woodbury (Science teacher & Episcopal priest)

AUDIO:
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/37068/

Enchanted stargazing, ALL!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 10:17 am: Edit Post

Who Knows ?
NO ONE !!
One Love !!
Mike (regular human, skeptical of some astrophysics and all religion).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 12:10 pm: Edit Post

George Harrison advised: "Turn off your mind relax and float downstream". Our internal chatter distracts and our neural nets are finite. Infinity can be described with words or symbols, a description is not the object that is described. Current intra religous conflicts illustrate the conundrum of holding fast to a man made conceptualisation of what is. Everyone thinks their concept correct, others are unbelievers.

Hubble and the Large Hadron Collider are extensions of our senses in a way. They help to expand the view outside of our skins, one macro the other micro. Only we have our inner views. If the Kingdom of Heaven is within, I'd start looking there.

Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle suggests that the closer we get to what we observe, the more we affect what we are observing.

This little speck feels more blessed every day to play a brief role in this ever changing miracle and experience the emotions pleasant and not that go along with the ride.

Thanks Z.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Confused on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 04:57 pm: Edit Post

Turey could you explain your version of the Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle.

Z did you notice the lady referred to God as Her? I wonder if it was a slip or is this another attempt to create God in our image?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 05:29 pm: Edit Post

A couple more essays (This I Believe), with ideas to share with the folks over pineapple pizza and a Stripe at Jack Sprat or just sitting on a stump at Eggy's bar.

I Am Evolution
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/10120/

There is No God
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/34/

Einstein: An Ideal Service to Our Fellow Man
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/16465/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 06:00 pm: Edit Post

The maths proofs are beyond me. Here is Wiki including some laymans explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

As the intro states: "That is, the more precisely one property is measured, the less precisely the other can be measured".

One view sees this as the observer affecting the experiment or whatever is being measured. When one parameter is defined, position, momentum becomes imposible to pin down.

Is this conclusion metaphysical or reasonable Confused?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Reka on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 07:18 pm: Edit Post

Confused, I would answer your last question with a question: If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it really fall? In other words, if we (man/woman) did not exist, would God exist?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 09:37 am: Edit Post

You missed an important addition to the pineapple pizza Z. Mushrooms. Jack Sprat is perfect otherwise.

The Japan reactor situation must have been a nightmare of Einstein. If Tesla had been part of the initial design process, we may have had cold fussion from the git go.

Two past masters of Mind Experiments. Tesla could design a motor in his head, run it for a while, observe the glitches, fix them and run it again. Only when he had perfected the design did he build the machine.

BTW, check Theremin, saw a doc last night with his aetherial music and his life. KGB grabbed him from NY and had him designing for politricks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 09:14 am: Edit Post

If not now Reka, eventually, some satellite will record the event which would be downloadable on Google Earth Future Edition :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 10:32 am: Edit Post

These ideas are good for discussion only !
However, they do not really matter. What really matters is the reality of our exsistence, and what happens to us from birth to death.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Still Confused on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 07:35 am: Edit Post

So,turey, your reference to that principle was inapt,was'nt it not? You sometimes cloud your thoughts so as to prevent us lessor mortals from getting enlightenment.

To Reka..Yes,if it falls it falls whether you hear it or not. The sun rises whether you see it or not.Everything which exist now except for man made things would exist without us and God would exist. Of course if we did not exist then...poof,it doesn't matter.
Never answer a question with a question,that's what mi 'ole granny said.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Z on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 09:42 am: Edit Post

More personal philosophies (Profiles of Experience & Learning) in the This I Believe series. Follow your bliss and hope others' ideas of "bliss" don't overwhelm ours...

Bowering: The Holy Life of the Intellect
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/31760/

Joy Harjo: A Sacred Connection to the Sun
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/31008/

Jimmie Day Gilmore: All the Joy the World Contains
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/22084/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 09:36 am: Edit Post

This I Believe in a Scientific vein...

Lightman: The Power of Mysteries
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/20733/

Brian Greene: Science Nourishes the Mind & the Soul
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/24/

Nunan: My Personal Leap of Faith
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/16140/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 11:22 am: Edit Post

For sure Still Confused. I'll stay clear of trying to make certainties of uncertainties from now on.

I believe we are all the same, groping for an explanation to what is. Whatever cloudiness surrounds me is my challenge to dispell. Enlightenment should endow one with the ability to clarify the vague and simplify the complex. I have a way to go, if such a state is attainable. I hope I'm heading in the right direction.

The ability to reason is part of the package Mike. Better than hand signs, barks and grunts. Not to say they are not appropriate at times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 09:04 pm: Edit Post

I have no problem with reasoning on a philosophical level.
But really how important is it, and how often has it prevented terrible things from happening to humans ?
Yes as humans we sometimes think on a philosophical level, but as humans we always act/react on a practical primal level.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 10:20 am: Edit Post

Yes Mike. It seems that the more we encourage the use of the front part of our brain called the pre frontal cortex, the more effective we are at making sensible choices. Reasoning encourages that and by extension, community strength.

Our limbic or feeling/emotional processing area, is more to the center of the brain. Encouraging the use of the front or thinking part, we open our choices to a world beyond that offered by choices based on feelings alone. Feelings are also easily manipulated for one reason or another. Diet, excercise and stress low surroundings are also choices that will keep it all running smoothly, these need good thinking to achieve.

Not to abandon feelings, but to have them in our service rather than being controlled by them. Then the ancient powers of this gift may be utilised effectively. Indeed, the abandonment of feelings may be why some philosophies become spun into terrible things. We are experts in expressing our feelings. A good thing as hidden feelings fester. The ability to reason clearly along with the passion, will steer the consequences of feelings gone wild in a civil direction.

When the inner Shepherd watches over the inner Lions and Lambs. Then we may be ready for real civilisation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Reka on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 09:51 pm: Edit Post

Aaah Still Confused, a question followed by a question! A little back and forth reasoning; rhetorical. I will just echo turey's first sentence in responding to you. In other words, if you're not there to witness an event, don't be so certain that it ever took place. "Observation" is a heck of a sinting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 09:08 pm: Edit Post

Mutabaruka: Rastafari Perspective on the Hebrew Bible

I am a Rastafari, but not what you would call orthodox Rasta. There are many things you may have heard about Rastafari theologically or otherwise, that you will not hear from me".
"When I was just sighting Rastafari I never know the Bible, although my mother send me every day - although she never come ... . Every Sunday me used to go to six o'clock mass without breakfast. You can't take communion on empty stomach."

As a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, Mutabaruka was instructed to read the Bible in its entirety, one chapter every day. It took three and a half years to finish. However, he said, "my contention is why those in the organisation who was told to read it end up with the same interpretation as the leader? We wasn't reading it to find truth with an open mind. We were reading it to be stronger in Twelve Tribes. Most people in a Christian country read the Bible to be better Christians".

"People believe that facts bring truth. Facts change with information. Truth transcendental, gone past thousands of years...me say me is Rasta, me is not a puppet. Me is not a zombie.

"My journey carry me through doubt. Doubt is one of the greatest asset. Is from there you go search. Most people scared. It bring fatigue."

So he started questioning from "in the beginning" (Genesis 1:1).

"To validate them ideas in the New Testament they go into the Old Testament and draw out that Isaiah or Jeremiah or somebody say and put that to what them want it to be," he said, noting that there is a gap of thousands of years. "So we see the belief thing become knowledge."

Stating that "belief is not knowledge", Mutabaruka said "you hope that what you believe is the evidence of what you want it to be. Nothing wrong with belief. Nothing wrong with hope. But when knowledge come ...".

He said that belief leads to mystery, superstitious ideas and inspiration without information - "and superstition is what grab a whole lot of people in the mindset of religion".

"Belief give you superstitious nature without understanding cause and effect," Mutabaruka said. "Belief is what grab we in the mindset of Biblical interpretation without analysing and finding answers in history, social and political, of what was happening at the time".

In examining that historical context, Mutabaruka said "I going use a big word you don't know I know - anthropomorphic, when you make God have human characteristics". He said that everybody does it but nobody wants to say they do, often employing the term 'God say!'.

And he went on to look at the ultimate 'God say!' of Christianity, The Ten Commandments. To get to that point, he went into the history of Moses; his living and being educated in Egypt for 40 years, intervening in a case of physical abuse and having to flee. "Christian say is God give them the tablet (with the commandments). I refuse to believe that an amplified voice was talking ... through a burning bush and then there was lightning. Is Moses giving these laws," Mutabaruka said.

He referred to the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day, its translation Book of the Dead a more popular title, and its 42 negative confessions which the Egyptians used to govern their society. "Moses took 10 of them and took it to the nation."

"Moses is given these laws by an unseen God that he, alone, has access to," Mutabaruka said, noting that if he had said the laws were coming from him then the people would be more likely to reject them than if he said they were coming from God.

He described Moses as a "great politician. He is using the unseen to make people who can see scared. Fear is the greatest tool used by religious people".

"The Hebrew God was created by Moses. That is [the] way out. I hear the quietness."

"The concept of Yahweh was given to the Israelites by Moses. Before him there was no concept. Him smart. Him build a tabernacle with inner and outer chamber and only his tribe could participate in the inner chamber. They would close the doors and formulate laws that people could live by to sustain the nation," .

"They could not say is them. Them come out and say 'thus sayeth the Lord Yaweh'."


LINK:
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110320/arts/art1.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 10:54 pm: Edit Post

Irie Turey
You make a good and valid point.
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Monday, March 21, 2011 - 11:54 am: Edit Post

Closed doors or caves. Lying in the sarcophagus in the kings chamber of the Great Pyramid. Dark, silent, private. Either a cabal of oppression or vehicles of a higher power? It is recorded that the original Hebrew Prophets exhibited what we may call intoxication or extatic states. When prophecy was codified or made into the graven/engraved images of hieroglyphs or proto canaanite, the readers or priesthood became the proclaimed channels for what was originally accepted as messages from beyond via a living human. Remember the resistance to allow the congregation to read for themselves in their tongue. Our Taino codified with shaped stones, shell and wood. As if to 'throw' messages to later generations on the hardest material at hand. Their states were induced by fasting and cohoba inhalation. The messages were the same. Transmitting the best choices for crop/human fertility, surviving natural crisis, success at war and unity under One God.

Our Taino caciques/chiefs and bohiques/science man should have got on splendidly with the old prophets and rabbis. Maybe some bucked up in Olde Jamaica!?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Monday, March 21, 2011 - 10:43 am: Edit Post

Sigmund Freud: The Narcissism of Small Differences

www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/why-did-francis-collins-a_b_835814.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Confused no more on Monday, March 21, 2011 - 09:21 am: Edit Post

z some of the things you highlight are interesting but some others like the last set ending with Mutabaruka could have been left where they were.

Reka, I know perfectly well the implications of your quote, it is just that if you ponder it, it is really not as profound as you may think. Observation is not that heck of a sinting either. Do you know what is a heck of a sinting? THINKING! Anyone can observe not everyone is able to understand what was observed. The object of the quote is to make you think, not to make you doubt whether or not the tree fell. Quoting has many pitfalls and we should be aware of them when we quote.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By z on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 07:35 am: Edit Post

I AM: Movie Documentary...for those who don't mind being buffered by the thoughts of some deep thinkers.

Trailer
www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=72425

Director Tom Shadyac:
What I discovered, when I began to look deeply, was that the world I was living in was a lie”... “Much to my surprise, the accumulation of material wealth was a neutral phenomenon, neither good or bad, and certainly did not buy happiness.”

“Death can be a very powerful motivator.” Confronting his own mortality, he asked himself, “If this is it for me – if I really am going to die – what do I want to say before I go? What will be my last testament?” It was Shadyac’s modern day dark night of soul and out of it, I AM was born.

...wanting I AM to identify the underlying cause of the world’s ills – “I didn’t want to hear the usual answers, like war, hunger, poverty, the environmental crisis, or even greed... “These are not the problems, they are the symptoms of a larger endemic problem. In I AM, I wanted to talk about the root cause of the ills of the world, because if there is a common cause, and we can talk about it, air it out in a public forum, then we have a chance to solve it.”

Ironically, in the process of trying to figure out what’s wrong with the world, Shadyac discovered there’s more right than he ever imagined.
He learned that the heart, not the brain, may be man’s primary organ of intelligence, and that human consciousness and emotions can actually affect the physical world...And, as Shadyac’s own story illustrates, money is not a pathway to happiness. In fact, he even learns that in some native cultures, gross materialism is equated with insanity.

Shadyac also discovers that, contrary to conventional thinking, cooperation and not competition, may be nature’s most fundamental operating principle.
Thus, I AM shows consensus decision-making is the norm amongst many species, from insects and birds to deer and primates. The film further discovers that humans actually function better and remain healthier when expressing positive emotions, such as love, care, compassion, and gratitude, versus their negative counterparts, anxiety, frustration, anger and fear.

Charles Darwin may be best known for popularizing the notion that nature is red in tooth and claw, but, as Shadyac points out, he used the word love 95 times in The Descent of Man, while his most famous phrase, survival of the fittest, appears only twice.

“It was a revelation to me that for tens of thousands of years, indigenous cultures taught a very different story about our inherent goodness.”
“Now, following this ancient wisdom, science is discovering a plethora of evidence about our hardwiring for connection and compassion, from the Vagus Nerve which releases oxytocin at simply witnessing a compassionate act, to the Mirror Neuron which causes us to literally feel another person’s pain.
Darwin himself, who was misunderstood to believe exclusively in our competitiveness, actually noted that humankind’s real power comes in their ability to perform complex tasks together, to sympathize and cooperate.”

Shadyac’s enthusiastic depiction of the brighter side of human nature and reality, itself, is what distinguishes I AM from so many well-intentioned, yet ultimately pessimistic, non-fiction films. And while he does explore what’s wrong with the world, the film’s overwhelming emphasis is focused on what we can do to make it better.
Watching I AM is ultimately, for many, a transformative experience, yet Shadyac is reluctant to give specific steps for viewers who have been energized by the film. “What can I do?” “I get asked that a lot,” he says. “But the solution begins with a deeper transformation that must occur in each of us. I AM isn’t as much about what you can do, as who you can be. And from that transformation of being, action will naturally follow.”

St. Augustine said, ‘Determine what God has given you, and take from it what you need; the remainder is needed by others.’ That’s my philosophy in a nutshell,” Shadyac says, “Or as Gandhi put it, ‘Live simply, so others may simply live.’”

With great wit, warmth, curiosity, and masterful storytelling skills, he reveals what science now tells us is one of the principal truths of the universe, a message that is as simple as it is significant: We are all connected – connected to each other and to everything around us.
“My hope is that I AM is a window into Truth, a glimpse into the miracle, the mystery and magic of who we really are, and of the basic nature of the connection and unity of all things. In a way,” says Shadyac, a seasoned Hollywood professional who has retained his unerring eye for a great story, I think of I AM as the ultimate reality show.”


http://iamthedoc.com/thefilm/

Variation on Decartes: Cogito ergo sum (I think, therefore I am...I am, therefore I think)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By MikeyMike on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 10:12 am: Edit Post

I have been in the King's sarcophagus in the Great Pyramids in the Giza Plateau and all I got was a terrible back ache from having to squat to reach the chamber. Of course my wife said she experience a strange vibe !
ONE LOVE !!
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By turey on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 07:38 pm: Edit Post

Aye. Imagine after preparation by the priesthood. Expectations, terror supressed as best as one can by the incantations. The effects of any substances would effect the brain and challenge reality further. Moses may have gone through such processes as a prince of Egypt.

No hippy wife :-) and flight schedules to remember.

Don't know if the geometry or the quartz have anything to do with brain chemistry. The three pyramids are the ultimate messengers in stone. The messages of precision, the complex geometries involved and the scale are dramatic on their own. Astrological/nomical marking and esoteric aspects are much discussed. The pyramid as a solar engine and water pump are also on the menu. All on Mr Google.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zed on Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 09:15 am: Edit Post

Deepak Chopra:: A New Creation Story: Beyond Religion & Science

...Religionists are trying to rethink God in light of quantum mechanics; Scientists are looking to spiritual traditions for glimpses into the realm that transcends the five senses. A new creation story is trying to be born...

Plato first declared that our sense of love, truth and beauty derived from the perfect love, truth and beauty that exist beyond the physical world. Today, these so-called Platonic values may be provable in a new way, as universal consciousness that orders and patterns the forms of nature.


LINK:
www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-new-creation-story-beyo_b_759933.html


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